If you have any "doubt" - Go See The Movie "Doubt" with Meryl Streep
We went to the theater Monday night to see the movie, "Doubt" with Meryl Streep, Philip Seymour Hoffman, and Amy Adams. There were so many similarities between the movie and our book, Innocence Betrayed. If you've seen it, you probably know what we're talking about.
We encourage people to see the movie. There were many subliminal messages. Even with the clean fingernails. Was he putting himself in the position of being not only physically clean, but also spiritually clean? You'll see many familiar tactics in the movie that are used by predator pastors in real life. We're hearing from more and more people every week.
Predator clergy are very skillful. They are in control of what happens on church property. They are so skillful in their art of deception that they can leave you in doubt of what you know. The morally corrupt administrators and supervisors would rather transfer a predator out instead of being transparent and conducting a thorough investigation. And listen to the priest's sermons and how he used those sermons to protect himself.
We'd love to talk with anyone who has seen this movie.
We were amazed at how well the priest was able to keep his facial expressions intact to never give anything away. He was very well trained to show no guilt. A person with narcistic personality disorder can create havoc in a church environment. They will never take responsibility for what they do. The violent rage and anger that people with this disorder catch many off guard. They will never give any satisfaction to a victim -- never admitting fault to anything. They will always blame it on you. If found in a church setting dealing with a narcissistic pastor, we suggest going to a help group instead of going to the church administrators.
On another topic:
We met face to face with another victim of clergy misconduct yesterday named Suzanne Cyr. She was a former member of the United Church of Christ in Maine. It was an honor to meet a woman with such compassion and strength. She has done extraordinary work teaching children on how to spot a predator. She, too, wants to make legislative changes. She's ready to put the past in the past and turn it into something positive. Her church leaders refused to talk with her face to face. She'd like to see churches' policies available to parishioners when they join the church. If there was a background check conducted on her pastor, she may have been better informed on what she's signing on for when going into a church. She was given a Myers-Briggs test to see if she and the pastor would be a compatible marriage match!
Has anyone else been asked to take a Myers-Briggs Psychological test at their church? The woman in our book was also given the Myers-Briggs test, but in a bible study class. We hear that a test of this nature gives a person such strong insights into the victim's innermost being of their personalities and can be disastrous when given by someone who is not mentally fit to be in the ministry, let alone be in a counseling situation with a parishioner.
Our holiday wish if for everyone involved in clergy misconduct or abuse to step forward and let their voices be heard. All voices matter. And all voices are important. Please use our blog to voice your opinion or tell your story. If there are any husbands and/or dads out there who have gone through anything like the dad in our book, please contact us. We want to hear from you!
Have a happy and safe New Year!
Blessings and Peace to All,
Helen and Curt
We encourage people to see the movie. There were many subliminal messages. Even with the clean fingernails. Was he putting himself in the position of being not only physically clean, but also spiritually clean? You'll see many familiar tactics in the movie that are used by predator pastors in real life. We're hearing from more and more people every week.
Predator clergy are very skillful. They are in control of what happens on church property. They are so skillful in their art of deception that they can leave you in doubt of what you know. The morally corrupt administrators and supervisors would rather transfer a predator out instead of being transparent and conducting a thorough investigation. And listen to the priest's sermons and how he used those sermons to protect himself.
We'd love to talk with anyone who has seen this movie.
We were amazed at how well the priest was able to keep his facial expressions intact to never give anything away. He was very well trained to show no guilt. A person with narcistic personality disorder can create havoc in a church environment. They will never take responsibility for what they do. The violent rage and anger that people with this disorder catch many off guard. They will never give any satisfaction to a victim -- never admitting fault to anything. They will always blame it on you. If found in a church setting dealing with a narcissistic pastor, we suggest going to a help group instead of going to the church administrators.
On another topic:
We met face to face with another victim of clergy misconduct yesterday named Suzanne Cyr. She was a former member of the United Church of Christ in Maine. It was an honor to meet a woman with such compassion and strength. She has done extraordinary work teaching children on how to spot a predator. She, too, wants to make legislative changes. She's ready to put the past in the past and turn it into something positive. Her church leaders refused to talk with her face to face. She'd like to see churches' policies available to parishioners when they join the church. If there was a background check conducted on her pastor, she may have been better informed on what she's signing on for when going into a church. She was given a Myers-Briggs test to see if she and the pastor would be a compatible marriage match!
Has anyone else been asked to take a Myers-Briggs Psychological test at their church? The woman in our book was also given the Myers-Briggs test, but in a bible study class. We hear that a test of this nature gives a person such strong insights into the victim's innermost being of their personalities and can be disastrous when given by someone who is not mentally fit to be in the ministry, let alone be in a counseling situation with a parishioner.
Our holiday wish if for everyone involved in clergy misconduct or abuse to step forward and let their voices be heard. All voices matter. And all voices are important. Please use our blog to voice your opinion or tell your story. If there are any husbands and/or dads out there who have gone through anything like the dad in our book, please contact us. We want to hear from you!
Have a happy and safe New Year!
Blessings and Peace to All,
Helen and Curt
Curt and Helen:
To further support the need for criminal background checks and finger printing of ALL church employees AND volunteers, here's more to my story....
In 2005, one of our church deacon's was arrested and charged with 12 counts of possession of child pornography on his home PC. He was asked to leave our church community.
In the past, he had positioned himself to be around children as a Sunday school teacher, substitute public school teacher, and community church deacon.
He was on our town's sex offender list for three years (2005 to 2008) until his recent passing.
In his obituary, his new church was listed and it also stated that he managed to become a deacon within that church just two towns over.
It is clear to me that his new church never did a background check.
Just putting his name into the state of Maine's sex offender data base would - HOPEFULLY - have prevented him from becoming an integral and intimate part of his new church.
Boy, does it make me wonder:
How many other predators are lurking around church settings under the shelter of implicit trust?
Peace ~
Suzanne
p.s. I am going to see the movie Doubt this weekend. I will let you know what I think.
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Curt and Helen:
I went to see the movie Doubt this past weekend. I thought it was well-done.
Very true-to-life depicting how well a predator can "talk his way" out of a corner.
I can relate to the feelings of doubt as I had my own misgivings but chose to ignore them; not good.
I too witnessed and was subjected to narcissistic rage as displayed by the priest in the movie.
I was once told that a predators greatest ally was: ignorance, apathy, and denial.
I was naive and in denial. Like Sister Jame's, I just did not want to believe.
I was subjected to mind-control in order to facilitate the doubting of my gut instincts - the red flags that I ignored for so long; too long for my well-being.
I hope the movie Doubt opens up the dialog that the Catholic Church does not have a monopoly on predator priests, clergy persons, and cover-ups.
All houses of worship operate in the same fashion; self-governed by their own rules.
Can you guess which character's displayed each of these traits (ignorance, denial, and apathy)?
It is such a shame that we do not have laws in place that mandate all church leaders and employees to be "mandated reporters".
If the state's Department of Human Services were involved, then a "paper trail" of clergy misconduct and allegations of abuse would be in place.
If the moral and ethical clergy do not take a stand and weed out the "bad apples" then we, the general public, are left to doubt if a place of worship is a safe place for our family's and children.
Here's hoping to future legislative changes that protect us from clergy abuse and professional misconduct.
Peace ~
Suzanne
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It sounds like a potent movie. I will have to try and see it.
It should be mandatory that all persons who are entrusted with the care and/or counseling of others undergo psychological testing, background checks and registration before they can hold any position dealing with the public.
I wish you every success with getting legislation through.
Any church needs to be a safe place, not one where you must be constantly on your guard.
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I have a friend who is an Episcopal priest.
She has told me that it has been their practice to perform background checks while students are in seminary and for every job change thereafter......
All denominations should follow suit.
Finger printing should also be done.
A national data base should be kept to keep predators from changing states or denominations in order to allude being caught.
It starts with us. We need to write to our local politicians and tell them how we feel.
There is strength in numbers.
Remember: always include your name, home address, and phone number when contacting legislators.
They want to be supported by their constituents. Knowing that their position, in office, is due to your voting power can put pressure on politicians to push forward the necessary legislation.
It's worth our collective efforts.
So many victims & survivors have lost their voice. Let's give them ours!
Suzanne
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You're exactly right, Suzanne! It seems like a no-brainer that prospective clergy members should be screened with a background check and fingerprinting. How many times have we heard stories of clergy being moved to another state after they've abused someone? And no one in the new place knows until he strikes again, ruining another unsuspecting victim's life and those around her. Certainly the screening will slow them down. Parishioners have a right to know who's administering to them in their church.
We put a sample letter up on the home page of our website at www.innocencebetrayedbyclergy.com for an easy copy and paste in an email to your state representative, congressman, senator, the president! Any and all letters will help the cause.
Great advice on adding address and phone number when contacting legislators, Suzanne.
We also have a link on the home page to the names of legislators in each state.
Let's not just sit back and do nothing when so much can be done with so little effort!
Helen
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I just got back from seeing the movie Doubt.
I must have a different take on the movie than other people. I was appalled.
With the thousands of children over decades that have been molested by priests..protected..transferred.parent'spaid off for silence..and one picture comes out..and the ending just made me so mad. She's crying now as she has "doubts"...which to me..says that she could have been..wrong and that maybe the priest...was innocent. I want to see a picture that brings out the disgusting cover up of the Catholic church of pedophiles. (former Catholic)
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I know what you mean about the ending. That was my first reaction, too. But I think it goes to show just how much power these men of the cloth have. In my mind, there was no doubt. I know he was guilty. That the movie ended with Meryl Steep's character breaking down makes for controversy. It makes people really think. It shows, too, how a lot of these pedophiles got away with it for so long. And what did the church do, they moved him to another unsuspecting parish. How many more people will have doubts? How many more people will be hurt?
The time to do something about it is now. Just having a movie about this subject is a step in the right direction. We have a new president that will hopefully care about this topic. We need to write our legislators and let them know that it's time to do something about the laws in every state dropping the statute of limitations, making clergy mandatory reporters and making sure every one of them has a criminal background check and is fingerprinted just like our teachers are. We have a link to the legislators in every state and a sample letter to write on our home page.
If nothing else, the movie brings awareness to the public. As a matter of fact, I've been in contact with another victim of clergy abuse and I'm helping him write his story. It's a story that could just be that movie you're talking about. It brilliantly tells of one man's journey to recovery from the childhood abuse by his parish priest and all the secondary victims' lives that were also ruined by this incident. This book will tell in detail what it took to recover--and it's an amazing story of the constant battle to survive. It's not only a story that is spell-binding to read, but it's one that must also be shown on the screen. I'm so excited about this project and the healing effect I think it will have on people!
Helen
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Helen,
But what if he DIDNT do it? What if you were wrong and he was innocent?
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Frank,
If the priest didn't do it, then why did he say he would resign his position after Sister Aloysius told him that she spoke to other nuns at his last parish and found out the real reason he left?
She told him that she wouldn't stop pushing the issue until the truth came out. Father Flinn told her that he didn't want it to get out and he'd resign.
If he was innocent, he would've fought her. He was that kind of guy.
But he was buddies with the monsignor and scored a promotion. This was typical of what happened in many cases where the pedophile priests were moved from parish to parish, abusing again.
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http://www.crime-safety-security.com/child-safety-molesters.html
Frank check out this above web site.
This should get you started...
Peace ~
Suzanne
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Hello all:
I read your opinions and thoughts about the meaning of the end of the movie DOUBT.
I had a different perspective and interpretation of what Meryl Streep meant when she broke down in tears stating she had so much doubt.
I understood her to imply that she was starting to DOUBT her catholic faith, the catholic meaning of obedience - does obedience also mean cover-up abuse?, and how she could remain in a vocation that turned their backs on child abuse, and worse: rewarded predators with job promotions...
By rewarding the priest with a job promotion after allegations of probable child abuse, the sister was given the proverbial slap in the face.
At one point, the priest screamed that Streep's character was to answer to him (obedience)and no one else.
The silent statement that was made to the sister was: who cares if the priest abuses children as long as the money keeps flowing into the parish, let him be.
That was my take on her admission of doubt. She held her cross and wept as she began to doubt her RELIGION.
I know how she felt.
When you love God, when you have deep faith, when you love church, and then become a victim of a clergy person you doubt your belief system.
You doubt everything you ever knew because as a victim of clergy abuse the betrayal is like no other.
Why go to church? Why donate money to a church? Why? How could God let this happen? Hence, the doubt....
Suzanne
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Ah, Suzanne! Yes, I see what you mean. Now that makes perfect sense.
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Your comment bears the question, what if the priest WAS innocent? What if she was wrong?
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Frank:
Good question.
In truth, it was a movie, so we can't truly say what took place because none of us were allowed to hear from the "victim", the young boy(s).
I guess the only way to truly answer your question is to do more research on the subject of predators. Google search: Christopher Reardon, Middleton Massachusetts. Then, volunteer at a local sexual abuse prevention agency...they will train you on the characteristics of a predator.
From my own experience, both personal and professional...the priest in "Doubt" was guilty.
But, movies are for entertainment purposes and to express an opinion in art form. In the case of a movie, there is no right or wrong answer. It's an art form meant to create dialog.
Good luck with your research!
Suzanne
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you guys are all messed up. this movie was about acceptance in the church, not pedophiles. this was a priest committing no illegal behavior, trying to help a homosexual boy through school. it was the principal who is the evil party trying to punish people for being human...
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An interesting take on the movie. Thanks for sending your thoughts.
Helen
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When I saw the movie "Doubt" I sat there waiting for the moment that I hoped would happen. I was waiting for the moment when the church would actually speak to the victim, and ask the child what the clergy member did to him. That moment never came!! Why do you think that was so? Why would they create a movie called "Doubt" and not include the victim's voice in any scene describing what the clergy member did to him? Sure I understand the victim was a child, but that's why I feel it even more important to include the child's words of what happened in the movie. Why were there no scenes of the child's parents talking to the child about the events that may have taken place?
Why was the priest the only one asked questions by the school administrator ( Meryl Streep) as to what may have happened? When asked what took place why was the priest the only one interviewed to make any comments of denial in the movie? Why was the victim not allowed to be asked the question about how the priest wound up trying to sneak the victim's tee shirt back into the child's school locker? Why not ask the victim how did the priest wind up with the shirt? Why not ask the victim how the shirt was taken off his body, and wound up in the priest hands?
I understand in the movie the victim was an altar boy, and he wore a special altar boys religious garment during the church service. But to think that an altar boy would remove his tee shirt to put on a religious outfit for church service sent up a "red flag" in my opinion.
Why were the police never called in, or child protective services to conduct an outside interview of "suspected child abuse?" In a school system a teacher accused of suspected child abuse is suspended until the outcome of an outside agency conducts interviews. Why was the priest never suspended, but worse yet transferred to another parish?
The reason the victim's story was never told in the movie is actually to me very true and dead on. The victim's voice was never heard in the movie. The victim's voice in many cases never gets the opportunity to be interviewed by the church administrators, because they are more concerned about damage control that getting to the "Truth".
In closing, the movie showed me very well the truth of how the victim is left out of the process, and out in the dark and the cold to suffer on their own. Why did they never have a meeting between the church administrators, parents of the victim, the victim, and the priest? The why to me is because my family was treated the same way, and left out in the dark and the cold, as are many other family's.
The evidence is discarded and explained away, like the priest said in the movie he did not not do anything to the child. And the reason the priest said he was returning the tee shirt to the child's locker in "secret" was to not embarrass the child by giving it to him face to face.
To me the movie should have been called "Truth" rather than "Doubt",what do you think?
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Curt:
Good points about the movie DOUBT! And, speaking of movies....
A recently rented the movie, AMAZING GRACE. Rent it, watch it, and be inspired by it!
One could make a parallel between the abolitionist's fight to pass a bill to end the slave trade to the current day quest to change legislation to better protect parishioners from clergy abuse and professional misconduct!
In both cases, African slaves and modern day parishioners are treated as if they held no value; not worthy of our basic civil rights.
In both cases, the bottom line was the bottom line. Money, prosperity, success, and commerce were / are more important than humanity.
If only we could hear the collective voices of all those who had been and are still currently being abused by trusted clergy, priests, and other religious leaders.... would American's step up to the plate and demand iron-clad laws to better protect parishioners from clergy abuse?
AMAZING GRACE: "was blind but now I see" was written by a former captain of a slave ship. After 20 years of supporting and promoting the slave trade ~ I am sure purely for financial gain ~ this ship's captain "saw the light". The light of injustice.
He repented his sins and then penned the song, AMAZING GRACE.
Curt and Helen: keep shining the light on this grave injustice (clergy abuse).
Like Wilbur Wilberforce, a vocal abolitionist and political leader, we can become political activists AND do the work of God at the same time.
Keep talking, keep writing, keep reaching out to those who have the power to right a wrong....
Together, our collective voices, will put an end to clergy abuse ~ in all of it's forms ~ and finally put an end to the silent suffering of parishioners who feel as if they have no human value what-so-ever.
Blessings ~
Suzanne
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I just watched the movie Doubt and to me it was very clear what was going on.
Both Father Flynn and the boy were gay. That's why the boy was concerned about himself looking fat at the beginning and why Father Flynn had longer than normal finger nails. That's also why Father Flynn was so kind to the boy and why the boy related so well with and looked up to Father Flynn. That's what the boys mother was referring to when she spoke about her son's "nature" and told the nun why the boy's father hated him so. The mother knew her son was gay but that didn't matter to her, all that mattered to her was her love and support for her son no matter who he was or what his "nature" was. The fact is her son was happy because he finally had someone to relate to and look up to and that mattered more to his mother than any implications the nun could have made. But, her husband didn't like it...hated it...refused to accept it...so he beat the boy.
I do not believe Father Flynn left because the nun "found out" what he had done, i believe it was because he did not want her to keep digging because he knew she would eventually find the truth about the boy, and himself, being gay. Father Flynn knew if this came out the boy would suffer terrible abuse from the other children in school possibly driving him out of the school, and ultimately put him in harms way due his father's hatred and further abuse, possibly killing the boy (like the boys mother referred to when she told the nun the boys father might kill him).
I also believe Father Flynn and the boy were both conflicted internally due to th struggle between the love for their faith and what they knew their true nature to be...gay. They loved their faith and knew that to be gay is a sin in their faith, but they also knew they it was their true nature. That's why father flynn became a priest, to suppress his wants and possible actions that were part of his "nature" which were forbidden by his faith. The boy saw this and thought that would be the best thing for him as well and that's why the boy said he wanted to become a priest.
Now, whether or not the priest made improper advances on the boy, i personally don't think he did. I think there was a mutual bond and respect between the two and i don't think the priest wanted to ruin that. But, i DO think the priest may have made advances on another boy in the school prior to the gay boy's enrollment. I believe he may have made advances on the blonde boy that was always getting into trouble and who made his own nose bleed to get out of school. That's why that boy didn't like him and also what Father Flynn was referring to when he asked the nun if she had ever sinned. He was implying that he recognized his wrong doing, confessed and repented for his sin and that was "between him and his confessor."
I apologize for my scattered thoughts. I hope you can understand them. Please let me know what you think
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Seth:
You make a very valid argument and many keen observations. And, to some extent, I agree. I agree that the young boy may have been gay or homosexual.
But, bear in mind the age difference and the major imbalance of power. A sexual predator is a sexual predator: his "prey" can be a child and / or an adult woman, or both. The difference between adult homosexuals and lesbians is that they are both adults and there is NO imbalance of power.
A child with an adult "relationship" cannot be "consensual" nor can a priest and a parishioner "relationship" ever be consensual. It is clear to me that something inappropriate took place between the priest and the young boy. But, truthfully, we, the audience, will never know for sure because the supposed victim was never given a "voice" to speak of what did or did not happen when the priest called the young boy out of class. That part of the script was, I believe, intentional because that is how perps work: in secret. It's all about keeping secrets, deception, and isolating the "victim". And, that I believe separates the ethical from the immoral. It does not matter if the perp is a priest, a minister, a sports coach, or a teacher.
No professional adult should be going out of his or her way to isolate a child and work with him or her behind closed doors. That to me reeks of probable abuse or really bad judgement on the "professionals" part.
Suzanne
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